RJ45-male konnektor til 4x2xAWG23 LSFROH D3212

[Micke]

Hej Alle,

Jeg har lige overtaget mit nye hus, hvor der er installeret IHC Net basic. IHC Net basic enheden er tilkoblet RJ45-vægudtag med kabler af typen 4x2xAWG23 LSFROH D3212. Jeg har prøvet at montere en RJ45-male konnektor af mærket Deltaco  MD-18S, dog uden held da det virker til at ledningerne fra netværkskablet i væggen er for tykke til denne RJ45 konnektor (den lilel plastik guide). Er der nogen der erfaring med dette specifikke kable og som derfor kan mig give lidt vejledning i hvilken RJ45-male konnektor der vil passe til kabeltypen i mit hus?

[Lars1]

Jeg kender ikke den RJ45 connector du forsøger at bruge, men det lyder ikke til at den er certificeret til ethernet. Enhver RJ45 som er CAT 5, 6 eller 7 certificeret, incl. under klasser, burde kunne bruges.

[Micke]

Hej Lars,

Mange tak for det hurtige svar.

Jeg har lige tjekket mine connectorer igen, og så vidt jeg kan se fra dette link skulle de virke fint; https://www.deltaco.dk/kategorier/deltaco/kabler-adaptere/netværkskabler/kontakter-stik/MD-18S. Jeg er derfor lidt i tvivl om hvilke connectorer der i så fald vil virke.

Kan du evt. anbefale en connector der ville virke i dette tilfælde?

[Lars1]

Den connector du har linket til er beregnet til bløde patch kabler, ikke stive væg kabler. Væg kabler bør termineres i en female connector, som sættes i en væg dåse. Alt andet vil give problemer på et eller andet tidspunkt.

[Lars Jacobsen]

Man kan få løse RJ45 connectorer til kabler med 1fast leder, eller til kabler med flere korer som der benyttes i bløde bøjelige patch kabler. Ligesom man kan få dem til flade og til runde kabler. 

[Micke]

Hej Lars og Lars,

 

Endnu engang tak for de hurtige svar. Nu begynder det hele vist at give lidt mening for mig

• Ville man f.eks kunne benytte et patch panel i stedet for løse RJ45 connectorer. Jeg tænker f.eks som denne https://www.av-cables.dk/patch-panel/skaermet-mini-desktop-patch-panel-cat6-sort-8-port.html
• Hvordan ser man forskel på om RJ45 connectorer er til fast leder eller bløde bøjelige kabler?

Jeg undskylder for de muligvis dumme spørgsmål, men dette er en ganske ny verden for mig. Jeg sætter stor pris på jeres inputs.

 

[Lars1]

4 timer siden, Lars Jacobsen skrev:

Man kan få løse RJ45 connectorer til kabler med 1fast leder, eller til kabler med flere korer som der benyttes i bløde bøjelige patch kabler. Ligesom man kan få dem til flade og til runde kabler. 

Ja men de stive kabler har det med at gå i stykker når de er blevet bøjet nogle gange, så det kan klart ikke anbefales.

[Lars1]

4 timer siden, Micke skrev:

Ville man f.eks kunne benytte et patch panel i stedet for løse RJ45 connectorer. Jeg tænker f.eks som denne https://www.av-cables.dk/patch-panel/skaermet-mini-desktop-patch-panel-cat6-sort-8-port.html

Det patch panel ser ok ud, men du skal være opmærksom på at du skal bruge en LSA tang for at monter kablerne i det.

Men f... hvor er jeg træt af at se reklame folk beskrive et produkt. Der findes ingen standard for 2Gbit netværk, og teknisk kan 2Gbit slet ikke lade sig gøre på CAT6 kabling, da 1Gbit standarden på CAT6 kabling er asynkron med 3 par til traffik den ene vej og 1 par til trafik den anden vej. Switch og klient bliver løbende enig om hvornår der skal skiftes retning. Det er også derfor man ikke kan forbinde 2 computer med hinanden via et X kabel, når man køre Gbit. Jeg får næsten lyst til at bestille en boks, og så anklage dem for falsk markedsføring.
Det minder mig om netcafeer, som reklamerede med 200Mbit netværk da 100Mbit netværk begyndte at vinde frem. 100Mbit fra klient til server og 100Mbit fra server til klient = 200Mbit. De har tydeligvis ikke fattet en brik, men det lyder godt.

[Micke]

Hej Alle,

Jeg har nu fået købt mig et patch-panel og sat det hele op, og det virker nu uden problemer.

Tak til alle for hjælpen i har gjort en hustand meget glade.

[reddeath]

Hi Micke,

I am also going to attempt an upgrade of my  IHC Net basic network. I found that the cable used is 4x2xAWG23 LSFROH D3307.

The information I found on the Internet about the cable "4x2xAWG23 LSFROH" is that it support up to 1000 Mhz broadband. I am not an expert in these custom cables, but I found on wikipedia that 1000 Mhz corresponds to CAT 7A cable, which should support 10 Gb/s transfers.  

Could you please share more information (e.g. links) to the hardware components you used?   Did you replace the IHC Net Basic box with some other box, or just used male connectors and plugged into the switch/router directly? What hardware did you use for the wall sockets? Which CAT version did you go for in your upgrade? Did you get 1 Gb/s transfer or more?

Thanks in advance!

[Lars1]

26 minutter siden, reddeath skrev:

Hi Micke,

I am also going to attempt an upgrade of my  IHC Net basic network. I found that the cable used is 4x2xAWG23 LSFROH D3307.

The information I found on the Internet about the cable "4x2xAWG23 LSFROH" is that it support up to 1000 Mhz broadband. I am not an expert in these custom cables, but I found on wikipedia that 1000 Mhz corresponds to CAT 7A cable, which should support 10 Gb/s transfers.  

Could you please share more information (e.g. links) to the hardware components you used?   Did you replace the IHC Net Basic box with some other box, or just used male connectors and plugged into the switch/router directly? What hardware did you use for the wall sockets? Which CAT version did you go for in your upgrade? Did you get 1 Gb/s transfer or more?

Thanks in advance!

The problem with the IHC net basic installation is it reserves 1 pair for TV and 1 pair for telephony, which only leaves 2 pairs for Ethernet. 2 pairs are enough for 100Mbit, but 1Gbit requires all 4 pairs. So to upgrade a IHC Net Basic installation to 1Gbit, all you need to do is replacing the IHC Net Basic box with PDS connectors on the individual cables.

The IHC Net Basic cables are not certified to a specific CAT standard, but the specs supports the CAT 7a standard. If you just want 1Gbit, you can pick any connector which supports CAT 5e or above. From CAT 6 and up you will only get a certified installation if are using components (connectors, cables and patch cables) which has been certified together, but a mix will normally work fine.

If you want 10Gbit you might have to replace the connectors in both ends, but so far I haven't seen any home switches support 10Gbit.

[reddeath]

Lars, thank for the answer. Yes, I am looking at getting rid of the IHC Net Basic box, and if possible to get 10 Gb/s transfer speeds using upgraded plugs and sockets. While opening the IHC box to remove the cables is probably easy, the wall sockets is a total mystery for me. I have invited an electrician to help me with that. But I feel I need to tell him what components I want to use instead, to get the proper results. And here I would very much appreciate some input from you guys.

What would you put instead of the IHC box? Just male sockets directly to the switch, or something link this (https://www.av-cables.dk/patch-panel/skaermet-patch-panel-cat6a-sort-8-port.html) and then patch cables to the switch?

What about the wall sockets? The insides most probably need replacement. I found these, but not sure if this is correct.

https://www.av-cables.dk/netvaerks-vaegdaase-2/lk-actassi-500-konnektor-stp-cat6a.html

https://www.av-cables.dk/netvaerks-vaegdaase-2/lk-actassi-fuga-dataudtag-u-konnektor-1-stik.html

I really need suggestion on these.

As for the switches there is a new 2 port ASUS with 10 Gb. For 8 ports, there is a bigger option from Netgear. This part I will take later on when hopefully prices drop to more reasonable level. A small disadvantage right now is that I will not be able to test 10 Gb transfer after upgrading the sockets, and before buying new switches and network card.

 

[Lars1]

Opening the wall outlets isn't more difficult than opening the IHC net basic box. If you electrician friend are used to install network drops, he can advise you. The connectors used for IHC Net Basic probably supports 10Gbit. The only problem with the IHC net Basic installation is the IHC Net Basic box. It reserves 2 pairs for TV and telephony. The cables and outlets has to support the 700MHz TV signal, so they should be good for 10G network too. If your electrician friend is used to install network drops, he probably have access to the test tools so he can test the installation after you have replaced the IHC net basic box.

You can't reuse anything from the IHC Net Basic box. Only the drop cables and the outlets in the rooms can be reused. The patch box you are linking to is a rack mounted version. This one is a wall mounted version. https://www.av-cables.dk/netvaerks-vaegdaase-2/lk-montageboks-softline-2-modul-for-4-stk.html When selecting a patch box, you need to look at the connectors too. The different brands of connectors doesn't fit into all patch boxes.

[reddeath]

Cool. So the box from your link, I assume this is just plastic and requires 4 female sockets to be purchased separately? The one I linked earlier does look like a rack mount, but it has the female sockets already included. Do you think that this connector will not work with the IHC cables?

[Lars1]

26 minutter siden, reddeath skrev:

Cool. So the box from your link, I assume this is just plastic and requires 4 female sockets to be purchased separately?

Correct

26 minutter siden, reddeath skrev:

The one I linked earlier does look like a rack mount, but it has the female sockets already included. Do you think that this connector will not work with the IHC cables?

The box you linked to will work with the IHC Net Basic cables, but it requires a rack to be mounted correctly, and it will stick like 50CM out from the wall. The box I linked to and similar boxes only stick like 5-10 CM out from the wall, and don't require a rack

[reddeath]

Do you have a link to the matching female sockets that will match the plastic box? CAT 6A preferably

[Micke]

The only thing I changed was the IHC Net basic box, which I changed to this patch panel:

https://www.avxperten.dk/patch-panel-cat6a/patch-panel-cat6a-desktop-skaermet-8-port-sort.asp

I have tested my speed and found that i can run 1000 mbit, which is as fast as my router and network card can manage. The installation was rather straight forward using an LSA tool, following the color coding in the patch panel.

I was not able to fit male connectors on the wall cables as these were to thick. So now I have standard lan-cables between the router and the patch panel.

I hope this answers your questions.

[reddeath]

So I had a visit from an electrician today and he established that the wall sockets have this female connector (or it's corresponding version from 2008 when the house was built):

https://www.av-cables.dk/netvaerks-vaegdaase-2/n-a-1171.html

It is a CAT6 socket. So I am thinking to replace all 8 wall sockets with the CAT6A version:

https://www.av-cables.dk/netvaerks-vaegdaase-2/lk-actassi-500-konnektor-stp-cat6a.html

And on the other end, instead of the IHC box, have 8 of the same sockets and place them inside 2 of these plastic covers:

https://www.av-cables.dk/netvaerks-vaegdaase-2/lk-montageboks-softline-2-modul-for-4-stk.html

I am aiming at the complete CAT6A installation to support 10 GB/s. The problem I am facing is lack of hardware to test the installation afterwards, beyond 1 GB/s. 

I am hesitating whether to spend 4k on 8 port 10 GB switch and another 1k on a network card, to verify the speeds

Is there any other way to test, e.g. using some special cable tester?

 

 

[Lars1]

20 timer siden, reddeath skrev:

Do you have a link to the matching female sockets that will match the plastic box? CAT 6A preferably

No. I just found the box on site of one of your links.

[Lars1]

12 minutter siden, reddeath skrev:

I am aiming at the complete CAT6A installation to support 10 GB/s. The problem I am facing is lack of hardware to test the installation afterwards, beyond 1 GB/s. 

I am hesitating whether to spend 4k on 8 port 10 GB switch and another 1k on a network card, to verify the speeds

Is there any other way to test, e.g. using some special cable tester?

Your solution looks ok.

You should not test the drop cables with a network switch. You will not be able to see what the problem is if they fail. Get an Electrician who is used to install network drops to run a proper test on them. He should have the test tools, and you should be able to get a proper test report, which by the way will also tell you whether the cables are bend to hard somewhere in your installation. The test takes 1 min. per drop cable.

The cost of having the Electrician doing the test is probably less than you spend on replacing the Cat6 connectors with Cat6a connectors, and the Cat6 connectors might support 10Gbit despite not being certified for it.

[reddeath]

I asked electrician about testing the cables. He said that he's tester can test connection on both ends on each wire, but cannot test the speed of the connection.

It is a good point about the cables, we cannot know if they are bent too much during installation. So replacing the wall plugs from CAT 6 to 6A is a bit of a gamble in that perspective. 

[reddeath]

Lars, do you know what kind of equipment is needed to do the tests you mentioned? Is it possible to determine maximum transfer speed without PC or network equipment on both ends?

[Lars Jacobsen]

Something like this:

http://www.flukenetworks.com/datacom-cabling/copper-testing/dtx-cableanalyzer-series

It can verify that cables and connectors are according to the specs for cat6 etc.

For real throughput test you need other equipment like EXFO ftb or similar

 

[reddeath]

This fluke networks tester costs 17.000 pounds on amazon.co.uk. I assume you are joking about suggesting to buy it instead of a switch and a network card

[Lars1]

16 timer siden, reddeath skrev:

This fluke networks tester costs 17.000 pounds on amazon.co.uk. I assume you are joking about suggesting to buy it instead of a switch and a network card

I don't think Lars Jacobsen suggest you buy that cable analyzer. But any electrician who wants to be considered professional when it comes to network cable installation has one, and most of them can be hired to come and test your cables after you replaced the connector. For 8 drop cables, it would be like 1 hour + the fee for the tester, which I assume would be like 500DKK but you need to get the price from the Electrician.